(i guess you're reading this. so i keep my word.)
i met some fresh souls last evening (do you mind being called souls, or does this compromise the whole atheist/agnostic paradigm?). old and new friends of a sort: former Christian school peers turned atheists/agnostics. first i must thank you with all the candor in my heart for the lovely time--i enjoy chat, and you were just the right kinds of "boys" with which to have a lovely chat. (you must know i call you "boys" with all the kindest intentions.)
first i must say i appreciate your abstaining from trying to "convert" me. as i said, i'm learning everyday of my LORD's love for me. it is stunning. it is consuming. it is breath taking. (you may call it my opiate if you'd like) you may also call me an idealist as well. that i wouldn't even begin to argue with: "pseudo-science" tells me that.
second, i did enjoy the camaraderie in knowing that others are as strangely obsessed with the whole "revelation-of-self-by-figuring-out-if-i'm-a-T-or-an-F" thing. it's always mind-altering when i meet others of strong personality. (i abhor self-ignorance) it's all part of the path. it all makes me appreciate them and me more. i am amazed daily. yes, another very "idealist" thing to do. (meanwhile she reality checks what she just said....so many dragons, so little time.)
finally (and oddly enough most refreshing), i was reminded of how much GOD doesn't make sense. how i can't possibly fathom what He has done, what He is doing, or why--and in this very singular thing i find the most JOY. i can't figure GOD out rationally. i can't say He is "orderly" (in an academic post-enlightenment sort of way). i can't count Him, or fashion a box big enough for Him to dwell in. i can't only talk of one experience in my own "meta-narrative." i can't give you a linear timeline of how i came to have faith in such a GOD as this (linear is over rated anyway in my opinion). this all may seem weak-minded and slow-witted, but these are the pressures in my soul that you inflicted last night for which i am most indebted. the small deaths that brought the phoenix from the ashes once again to "godfather" watching, christmas shopping, hanukkah celebrating, and a thousand other tiny magical moments.
(if you doubted the idealist before: doubt not.)
18 comments:
That's the point, friend, we can't understand God. That is why we must come to Him as a child. Self-abasement is what God demands. His ways aren't ours, nor are His thoughts. We must set aside this notion that we are smart Christians. Remember, knowledge puffs up. Thanks for you prayers, and sorry for the dreadfully redundant phone conversation. Like I said, I wasn't expecting to have to talk to you. And people making out in cars will always brighten up one's day!
Just gotta say John that I love radiohead. What song is that from? I just started getting into them. And yes those things are over rated to the unregenerate soul. I'll have to check out your blog.
glad i could inspire you to do something....
happy christmas to you olivia (i must admit i like the change). guess you survived without the power. thanks for the santa comment--i must agree...
jon (i will spell it that way...because i must), i do enjoy the repartee (is that the correct spelling? i like to imagine it that way. after all spelling is just a human construct wouldn't you agree?) you bring here. i am glad you will keep posting. maybe we NF's will inspire you a bit. looking forward to the blog you will begin...a bit of personality preservation via numbers.
matt, i also enjoyed the evening, and the "idealistic wonderland." as puddleglum says in "the silver chair": "suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things--trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. suppose we have. then all i can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seems a good deal more important than the real ones. suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. and that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. we're babies making up a game, if you're right. but four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. that's why i'm going to stand by the play-world. i'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. i'm going to live like a narnian as i can even if there isn't any narnia.....not that our lives will be very long, i shoud think; but that's small loss if the world's as dull a place as you say."
(i always revert to the NF's happy land of narnia--when possible....)
matt, i love the "self-absorbed-blogger" handle. aren't we all just a bit....
first, i must say that every night i pray over my little girls that they will continue having a child-like faith. that they will dance in Jesus' name every day of their lives and that i will recapture that same genuine, undefiled spirit that exuberates from every fiber of their being.
secondly, i thought of a different passage from the works of our dear friend "jack" (cs lewis). in the last battle the children, king tirian and a group of dwarfs enter the cold dark stable. the children and the king look around and see a beautiful country - more wonderful and beautiful than anything they have ever seen, but the dwarfs only see the stable walls & only smell stable smells. Lucy wants to help them and tries to convince them to come out of their huddle, but they refuse. when Aslan appears he places before the dwarfs a feast, but all they can taste is hay and trough water. aslan says, "they will not let us help them. they have chosen cunning over belief. their prison is only in their minds, yet they are in that prison; and so afraid of being taken in that they cannot be taken out." and so he leaves the dwarfs to dwell in a prison of their own making while the rest travels "further up and further in" to the true narnia. my heart breaks for the dwarfs as they choose to live in a cold, dank stable unable to see the truth surrounding them, but that is the essence of free will.
i love the magic of santa! in fact, we encourage it around here.
i am glad that cynicism has greatly improved your state of being in this life, but what will it do for you in the next life? we are all immortal - "immortal horrors or everlasting splendors" cs lewis - the weight of glory. which ever we decide to be, one day we will all fall on our faces before Him and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
to all:
human eyes and experiences can leave us with the presumption that we make life good or wonderful or beautiful or kind. but look around and see that when mankind tries to live without God as the center, history proves that what will ultimately be left is not as good or wonderful or beautiful or kind. looking toward what happens after childhood or adulthood or any action or feeling, when one has taken the final breath- what happens to all then. oh, therein lies the beauty of the cross- death defeated and life eternal. christmas. hope each of you finds the kind of joy that only comes from faith in Jesus Christ.
john, i sincerely apoligize that you took my previous comments as condenscending. however, i must vocalize my beliefs just as you must vocalize yours in this open forum that elea has created. thanks e. :-) i would do a great dis-service to my Savior if i didn't state my belief in Him and in all that He has promised to do for me in regards to eternity.
as far as this world goes, i'll be the first to admit that i enjoy every moment immensely. i love to be enveloped by the sights, sounds, smells, tastes and textures that this old world affords, and i believe that i should relish in these things b/c God made them. but i also believe that He made a far better place too. far better than any "fantasy land based on the land of narnia."
thanks for the spirited "adult" debate by the way! typically, i debate my day away with my 2 and 4 yr olds.
jon, i would definitely not be the kind of "this world is not my home, i'm just a passin through" Christian. i believe there are many things to enjoy about this world (ecclesiastes--my favorite message of life in the Bible), and the kind of Christian that can't live in this moment he or she has been given is sadly deceived. nor do i ascribe to plato's misguided view of the world--the cave (something i know cs lewis held in very high regard, and would disagree with him visciously on). there is a long history of narnia amongst us all that (i do apologize) you are unaware of. i had a student one time compare narnia to heaven (i nearly screached in protest--my friends had to clinch my knee in restraint), an idea i vehemently abhor. narnia is not heaven. it is part of the journey. it is just one of the many places we encounter faith.
e, nate thanks you ever so much for putting that song in his head. he can't get rid of it now. :-)
Ok matt, that was quite simply the greatest compostion in human history. I haven't seen anything that funny on SNL since Fallon left.
john, the Bible is unique in that it was the first book ever written to introduce those elements of a savior, heaven, and hell. Many of the ancient religions have borrowed their stories from the Bible. Now the fact that the thoughts of human inadequacy and the need of a savior are so compelling to mankind that many had to borrow from the Bible to fill that hole in their souls, to me, is a proof that it is all true. However you could (and will) easily cite the liberal scholars who would put later datings on the original writings and say the Bible borrowed from others. So it appears we are at a stalemate huh? Well, to quote my friend, Erin/Puddleglum, my imaginary world does put your reality to shame.
hey, y'all. i'm up in chicagoland and am catching up now with the thread after reading the initial entry right after erin posted it.
matt, my INFJ mind is still reeling--trying to grasp the connection between your ESTJ mind and the fact that your turn signal's clicking sounds won't stimulate an erection. whaaaaat was the point you're making there? =} if it's an allusion to a previous illustration, i freely concede that i may be missing it entirely. i would not put it past me.
i'd concede, too, that songs (and the mentality that drives them) that say "I don't understand You which is why You're great" and the like are misrepresentative, misleading, misguided. but the existence of cheesy or shallow or loose articulation cannot serve to prove the non-existence or non-proveability of a deity, particularly not that of the God of the Bible.
i posit the Bible's verity and authority, not because i'm stupid or insane or arrogant. nor because i'm a glutton for accusations of circular reasoning. i simply do not believe that humans can function without placing trust in something.
i require an absolute reference point, and i know myself well enough to know that that reference point can't reside in my pocket. i'm fallible. my perceptions fail. my judgments misfire. my discernment wrecks. in many ways, yes, i'm like a child--
-- not because i am a dipstick, but because i am fallible,
-- not because i am carefree, but because i am needy,
-- not because i'm pure, but because i'm imperfect,
-- not because i am blind, but because i am limited.
i would submit that childlikeness itself is not an adequate metaphor in all points--inherently, childlikeness (with all its pros and cons) is not the same thing as the beauty found in childlike faith. the beauty of childlike faith (or of weak things made mighty, or of foolish things made wise) is the incongruence, the juxtaposition of great and small. that kind of childlike flinging all of oneself upon a God beyond comprehension is not a blind-leap kind of irrational escapism.
that kind of childlike flinging is unadulterated trust--or even adulterated trust. (what does it matter, after all, so long as the trust is accurately placed in a divine Savior capable of saving?--it's not the amount of or strength of right faith that saves; it's the Object of that faith Who saves.) that kind of childlikeness reflects dependency, honesty, an awakening awareness of surroundings bigger than oneself.
do keep writing. and do fill me in on the erection-connection. =}
let's just say for the moment that you and matt are correct. there is no God, no heaven, no hell, no satan, no accountability for wrongs and no reward either. nothing. so when i die nothing happens. now let's say we are correct. we die and God exsists and we must bow before him. we go on to live eternally in a real heaven or a real hell. it seems to me that your playing a risky game by placing all your chips on lucky number 7. you see if you're right nothing happens to me when i die, but if i'm right something does happen to both of us.
(btw, hi joy. nice of you to drop in.)
the snl narnia moment made me smile....
john & matt - we will never convince you that there is a God or a heaven, etc... we realize that the Holy Spirit is the only one who is able to turn the hearts of men to the Savior. but we also realize that God allows us and wants us to share with you the wonderous story of His great love. we are all given a choice. God won't force you to believe in Him and He certainly won't force you to love Him. He wants me and you to decide to believe and love Him. john, you wrote about your friends and how they've taught you to trust, but please consider the five individuals(plus elea) whom you have never met and most likely never will meet who have spent time this past week sharing Christ with you and undoubtably have spent even more time praying for you and matt. we care deeply not only for you to find peace on earth but also eternal joy with us as we worship the King of Kings. i hope you had a wonderful Christmas and that the new year will bring even more Christians into your lives that truly live out the joy found in Christ alone.
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